Keith & Julie Joesel
,Interviewed by Deborah Cartwright and Jacque Smith
Keith and Julie Joesel moved to Elgin and became active in the First United Methodist Church over twenty years ago as they raised their two sons in the community. They are both educators and have been involved in school and civic activities since their arrival. Their interview chronicles their memories of being welcomed into the congregation, leading youth activities, and participating in the choir, educational classes, and administrative activities. Keith and Julie share their faith journey and their appreciation for the church's sanctuary, worship services, and pastors.
The interview was conducted by Deborah Cartwright with audio assistance from Jacque Smith, both members of the board of directors of the Elgin Oral History Project. Ms. Cartwright was raised in Elgin and retired from her work as an attorney in 2021. She is an active community volunteer in non-profit and governmental organizations. Ms. Smith is a talented artist who retired to Elgin about ten years ago. She is interested in preserving the community's history and rural heritage,
Interviewer - Hello. Today is Tuesday, August 29th, 2023. We are at the First United Methodist Church office in Elgin, Texas. We are recording an oral history from you, Julie and Keith Joesel together, as part of the Elgin Oral History Project. It will be used for generations to educate young and old about life in Elgin, good and bad, with memories and personal recollections. The recording will be preserved in a database for the project and ultimately posted on a website. The Elgin Oral History Project organization is a community based, not-for-profit entity. Do I have your consent to record this interview today?
Julie - Yes.
Keith - I do.
Interviewer - I pronounce you man and wife! [laughter]
Julie - We've done that once.
Interviewer - You have done that once! My name is Debbie Cartwright, and I serve on the board of directors for the Elgin Oral History Project. With me is Jacque Smith, who also serves on the board of the Project. The board determined that capturing the history of the Elgin First United Methodist Church, especially about its building and origins, would be valuable during its sesquicentennial year next year. So, I'm interviewing several persons from the church to talk about those subjects and get their perspectives about the church and share personal stories about your time here. I have eight questions. Some of them are in sub-parts. And so, I'm going to just take the first one, and if we get kind of messed up and I need to go back and remind you what I've asked, we’ll do that. What is your first memory of the First United Methodist Church of Elgin—the sanctuary, the people, the music, the worship experience? What is your first memory of walking into the church?
Julie - I think I was pregnant with our first son. Isn't that correct?
Keith - Yeah.
Julie - And we actually came to visit as a young couple to just visit, because I grew up Methodist, so that'll come up a lot. I'm what people would consider a “cradle Methodist.” I've gone to Methodist churches my whole life. And we were researching what church we wanted to . . .
Keith - It's terrible to say you're church shopping, right? But that's I think . . . that's the term, right, that you visit churches and try to feel out, you know, the community and what would you like to make your church home. For her, it was like, she was Methodist through and through. Right? And I grew up . . . my parents were Lutheran. But it wasn't as big a part of my life as it was with Julie's family at Dallas Methodist. And to give you a comparison, one of the first Methodist churches I ever went to was the First United Methodist Dallas with her family.
Julie - It's a huge, massive church.
Keith - And I was in there and there were like TV cameras. And it was just overwhelming, you know, and it was a very different thing. But coming here, you know, was . . . Jenna was there at the time.
Julie - Yeah, Jenna was the pastor.
Keith - And they had an associate pastor.
Julie - Tara.
Keith - Yeah, Tara. Pastor Tara. And then we came back later.
Julie - Well, so then we gave birth to our son.
Interviewer - And this was 2000?
Julie - Yeah, it was 2004-ish. I think we visited and then they overlapped basically--Jenna and then Jim McLain by the time we came back. So, it might have been a little bit sooner, maybe in 2003. I want to say I was pregnant . . . anyways, by then, we came back when Clayton was nine months old in 2004. He had been born, and we had gone through the throes of having a new baby; and we decided we needed to go figure out church. And so, we came back. And we need to tell this part of the story. So, we came back again to visit, and yeah, Clayton was fussy.
Keith - Yeah, Clayton. So, we were in there. So, he's fussy. I grab him and I'm rocking him. And then there was just a tap on my shoulder, and Mike Christiansen—right—just puts his arms out, and Clayton reaches his arms out and is like—let’s go! And I'm like . . . I turn around and I'm handing off my kid to this guy!
Interviewer- Well, you found your church.
Keith - Yeah.
Julie - Yeah, yeah. And then Clayton . . . Mike walked him around during the service, and Clayton was looking at the windows, and I always felt , , , I immediately felt at home in the Methodist Church, because of the tradition. It's what I'm used to. The Gloria Patri, the music, you know. And at that time, you know, it was a big—we had a large congregation, and we just found our home. We did go to other churches. I'm not going to mention any of those names, but none of them seemed to fit us. And then I don't think we looked back, and Clayton was nine years old, and I mean, the gorgeous stained-glass windows, the music, everything. It was just home, you know. And then we enjoyed sermons. And at the time, Pastor Jim was amazing—he is an amazing preacher. And so that drew Keith in.
Keith - I mean, I like it all. But yeah, it was like, you know, the sermons and the messages were great. But it was kind of that moment. It's like, okay, I can hand my kid off here. And then, you know, Kim was the pharmacist in the downtown. It was still the downtown pharmacy, you know, right on Main Street at the time.
Interviewer - Kim Christiansen?
Keith - Yeah, Kim Christiansen. And then to learn, you know, the history of . . . like you meet all the people who have familial history of . . . like whom we always joke about, you know, the people who were Western Days queens and, you know, who grew up here and all that.
Interviewer - And relationships to the people whose names are on the stained-glass windows.
Julie - Yes, absolutely.
Keith - Yeah. Yeah. Like putting names together, like Rivers, and all these names together. And you just see this rich contextual history over time—it is amazing.
Interviewer - That's a very interesting thing about the sanctuary itself, I think, as far as how it connects with the community. How many pastors have led the church since you’ve been members? And did one pastor stand out for you as a spiritual leader?
Julie - So, we've had . . . we’ve had four or five. The two that stand out I guess for me . . . well, there are three: Jim McClain, of course; he was a phenomenal pastor, and Kercida. I still count them among close friends. I still speak with them to this day. Then Pastor Joyce, totally different personality, but still I was very connected to her.
Interviewer - Her last name is McCormick?
Julie - McCormick—Joyce McCormick. Yes. And then Robert Waddle, one of our most recent pastors. He was a really amazing preacher as well. Amazing, gifted pastor. So those were the three that I connect to the most.
Keith - Yeah. And coming into that is . . . like not growing up Methodist, itinerancy is very interesting to me. Right? The idea that in a Methodist Church with that tradition that there weren't enough pastors, so there was a circuit rider, you know, as part of Methodist tradition. That's turned into, you know, the itinerancy system where it’s. . .The bishop is going to move pastors over a period of time. You know, that's very interesting, I think. There's some pushback about that because obviously you become connected to the pastor, and pastors feel at home. And it's almost like in a military sense that they're serving. But I think it keeps the focus in the right spot. You know, it's not the pastor, right? It is the church of the people. And the focus is on worship, praise, service, and witness. And it puts the focus on that; the pastor moves on.
Julie - We’re still a family.
Keith - You're right. And then, there's that feeling of, like you know, loss but also a fresh start with another pastor. And that's refreshing at the same time. So you've got this cycle that we've gone through a few times, you know, and it's very interesting because I think it serves the church as a larger entity very well. I mean, we had, Pastor McClain and J.J. Wicke who was a very young pastor here, becoming an elder in the church here, you know. And now, he has moved to several churches, and he is leading a church in northwest Austin. So, it's interesting because the pastors get different exposure. And then, I mean, I have to mention Pastor Waddle. It is absolutely amazing to see someone of the African American tradition to come and preach because it's very different. The energy and the delivery are so different. And it's great because all those different traditions come here. And so, it's a rural/suburban context now, but you have people moving from different settings. It serves us well because you get to see the style and the approach of different pastors. But I think it also serves the church while the pastors serve in different contexts and have a variety of experiences.
Interviewer - And that's why I wanted your input on that because it is such an unusual organizational structure that the Methodist Church has.
Keith - Yeah.
Interviewer - And it's one that, as you said, serves the congregation very well.
Julie - You learn how to be a congregation as opposed to following one person and style. It's basically, we're really the church. Not that the pastor's not, but like the church, the ones that do the work and the service in your community, are the people. And so, it is a unique structure.
Interviewer- Are you involved in classes or group activities in the church? And if so, what are they?
Keith - Currently?
Julie - She knows mine! I am a musician. I do everything musical.
Interviewer - Okay, and I want to talk about that—we’ll get there.
Keith - She serves on SPRC, which is Staff Parish Relations.
Julie - It's kind of the HR for the church—like the people that work with the staff that are not necessarily even members of our congregation. So, how we staff the church, including the pastor and all the other staff. What else? I mean, we've led Sunday schools. We're heavily involved in youth and children. We strongly believe in youth and children ministries because really, ultimately, that's what builds the future of the church. If you've ever been to a VBS here when we've had 200 kids on site, it's amazing.
Interviewer - Yes, I worked at VBS—one time!
Julie - Do you have PTSD? PTSD from working on VBS?! Yes, like they're pretty overwhelming! But you know, like my children, it's kind of touching . . . back to my children. They started VBS when they were 15 months old because Keith was a helper. A volunteer. And I think it was even before Kenneth was born, our second child . . . Clayton . . . They would establish a nursery for people who were working. And so, Clayton came from 15 months on and probably Kenneth from the day he was born, rolled out and was in VBS. And now Kenneth this year, and Clayton, my oldest who's at college, was like, “when's VBS? I want to be able to work at, like as a college kid."
Interviewer - How wonderful!
Julie - He couldn't because of his . . . he had another work demand, but he still was like, I want to come work VBS, but he couldn't. He was really disappointed when he found out that the dates didn't line up.
Interviewer - In case we didn't say, VBS is Vacation Bible School, for the listener. It's something that happens in the summer with lots of children.
Julie - Yes. And then . . . and then Kenneth this year was featured on the . . . he was the puppet. You know, there's usually like a puppet character. So, Kenneth was featured as a puppet character. So, both of our children have been heavily involved in that.
Keith - Yeah. I mean, I guess . . . Julie does a lot of that administrative, you know, heavy lifting in those committees. And I really like the . . .
Julie - You get to play!
Keith – I guess so! Specifically, Godly Play which is a Montessori-based program. I've got to do that and that was before I transitioned to teaching. You know, so I mean, part of the church is now what led me to teaching . . . my time with children in the church. It's a Montessori-based program where you share stories, and you have very humble materials and elements. But the kids, after hearing the story, can respond. And then they can work with the elements of the story and process it in that way. So, for very young kids, it's a great time. And they're not afraid to ask the really big, existential questions. And then we sit there and wonder with them, which is always . . . which has been great for me, you know?
Julie - What about youth mission trips?
Keith - Yeah. And then the other end is like to see the kids grow and go on youth mission trips and lead. So, we partner . . . the church participates . . . and actually, I have to give a shout-out to the Cowboy Church for this . . . they invited Impact Texas, which is missions that are in Texas. It's big enough. You know you can go on mission here and be in a very far-away place. And they came here to Elgin. What was it—like 2016?
Julie - Clayton was in the seventh grade--it was 2016.
Keith - And they came here, and they partnered with the local churches and coordinated projects. And all the youth sleep at a high school or a middle school. And the local churches support them. But, you know, it's between 100 and 200 youth, you know. Yeah. And now we travel around Texas to other towns with some of the hometowns of some of the other churches you serve with. And now it's, you know, up to 400 people. And it's amazing—it’s many denominations. It's a lot of Baptist churches of different sizes from across Texas. But they go to smaller growing towns. What I kind of call the Dollar Generals, right? You know, those towns that are just getting . . . they’re growing, but that can have a huge impact. We get to know the community, too. So that's something that, you know, is again, First United Methodist Elgin every summer is going to another town, and those kids are doing it their first—no, their second week of summer. It's like, what are you doing the second week of summer? I'm going on a service project for a week. You know.
Interviewer - Where was the service project this year located?
Keith - So, we actually went to Jacksboro, Texas, which was great, and we've done Forestburg and Hondo.
Julie - Every year since 2016, a group of our youth has gone.
Keith - Yeah. Other than the COVID year, we've done every one, and it's just really great to make those connections and see the kids grow and just serve, and it's really cool because it's just plug and play. You show up, and they have like all the tools, right? The weed whackers, the paint, the scrapers, and all that. And then the kids are like . . . we're painting houses, brush removal, clean-up, a lot of clean-up, and ramp projects. And it's really great to see those kids just put it all out there. And the coolest thing about Impact Texas is the people that are serving with you during the day are actually bringing the sermon or are in the praise bands at night. It's not like someone else coming in. It’s like the pastors and the praise teams are all doing the same work . . .
Interviewer - So, they are working during the day and then in the evening is a worship service?
Julie - Yeah—they have 3-to-4-hour worship services.
Keith - Yeah, the sponsors, you name it. So that's been a joy with the kids too, to see them grow and get to do that too. Yeah.
Interviewer - And you mentioned music. Tell me about the choir and about the music experience at the church.
Julie - So, it's an interesting one for me coming from such a massive church. I grew up in a church where we had huge, massive choirs, but coming here, it's been actually really lovely. You know, we've had large choirs where we've done--we do a community choir periodically where we gather all of the congregations, you know, the Baptist Church and the Presbyterian Church will send people, and we'll all sing together. And that's always amazing. But the program here, for the most part, we've had a really stellar music program. We've got a lot of in-house, just amazingly talented people. I've sung. I've sung by myself; I've played--I play the flute. I now sing in the praise band. So, I mean, you name it, I've probably done some sort of music. Oh, handbells! We had . . . the Cardwell family, I think, donated handbells, and so we have had chances to play handbells. Kenneth, my youngest, who is pretty musically talented—his first handbell teacher pulled me aside and told me: “I want the record to show that I taught him his first whole note and his first half note! So, when he's famous, you tell everybody that I am the one that taught him this.” I don't know if he's going to be famous or not, but it was really funny. And so, both of my kids got opportunities to be in music that typically you wouldn't see in a small church of this size. But we've had a lot of great music directors. We've had a lot of great accompanists and organists that have joined us over our time. And I really enjoy the music program here. And, you know, we're actually seeing another rebirth. The choir's really growing, and we've got the praise band going again. So, it's really a kind of an exciting time currently for music here.
Interviewer - Tell us about Christmas. Tell us about the Christmas services and what the tradition of the church is around Christmas.
Keith - I like the church at night, and the candlelight service just holds a really special spot in my heart. You know. It's because, you know, it's coming up to the church and to see the light pouring out of it; it is an amazing thing. And then to be in it, you know, when you sing “Silent Night,” and you see all those faces lit. Right. And you're there together, it's just, you know, something I'll never tire of, and it's just an amazing time in the sanctuary.
Julie - So, I'll tell you a funny story about him. Christmas Eve services, usually there's like a family one like at five for families with young children. And then I think, at the time when our kids were younger, there was like a 9:00 praise, and then there was an 11:00 late night one. So, on Christmas Eve, as young parents of young children have to do, they have to play Santa Claus, I guess maybe, you know, or help Santa Claus in the evening after the young children go to bed. So usually, your schedule is you go to that 5:00 Christmas Eve service; you have Christmas Eve dinner; you put the kids to bed; and then you're assisting Santa Claus with what needs to happen. He would always go back at 11. I'd be like, I'm done. I'm going to bed because I'm exhausted and I know I'm going to be up at five in the morning because the next day is Christmas Day. He would almost for, I think, for a good period of time, he would come back for that 11:00 service.
Interviewer - He was concerned for the faithful organist who was sitting there playing the entire time.
Julie - But yes, absolutely! Absolutely. So, yeah, he would always come up and I would be like, you're nuts! I'm going to bed. He pretty consistently would come up here because it is amazing to see the light coming out. You know, it's so different, because in the day the light's coming in, and then at night you're generating that light out into the world.
Interviewer - And it is really cold outside. And then it's so nice and cozy inside.
Keith - Yeah. It helps. I have to pause to say: “I'm a Yankee!” I've been in Texas since I was 19 and like, I'm still a Yankee, and I'll never be a Texan. But my kids are Texans, and my wife is Texan. But it is it's really important for me because I'm used to snow, and I'm used to lights. Right. And, but here in that sense, it's just a . . . it really puts the focus on Christmas where it should be, and it's that Christmas Eve service—the late candlelight service—that has always been a real special thing.
Julie - Now we can bring our college age kids, and they can stay up ‘til 11 and go to it with us.
Keith - But the other thing that was cool was, and I haven’t done as much of . . . I am not much of a morning person; but on Easter we used to go over to the sunrise service at the AME Church right across town—to the African Methodist Episcopal Church. And they would do they would do a sunrise service and then we would do our traditional service over here, and then we would have brunch together, which was always kind of cool for Easter.
Julie - You could ask for Easter next.
Interviewer - Could you share a special story about the church? It could be a funny story. It could be a special story about how church impacts your life, your family, or anything that's just special to you about the church. And you've told one already about the Christmas season.
Keith - Yeah, that is that is pretty good.
Interviewer - You may have told your special story, but there may be something else.
Keith - I mean there's . . .
Julie - There's so many; it's hard to narrow down.
Keith - There's a time, but I'll go like . . . I'll go with the Godly Play story. It's like, so I mean discipleship is following, right? And in that there's kind of . . . I landed in Godly Play, and that was, you know, you're sitting with the stories and some of the simplest senses like parables. Right. And asking questions and literally wondering and seeing where you find yourself in the story. And one of the cool things about Godly Play is during that response, kids choose what to do--they can respond with hard work, or they can do other things. And some profound things happen in the circle. You also have a small feast, right? And so, to sit with kids and you and teach them to sit in a circle and take time. Right? And taking time is important and being ready is important. It's very liturgical. But that time together, you know, to see a kid work with the story of the Good Shepherd and the sheepfold and open it up and then have it the freedom to take a tiger out of the ark story and put it in the fold. And, and just to ask, it's like, so what's going on here? And it's like—well, they can all be together, right? And that’s—it’s not something strictly Biblical, but it is a kid trying to make sense of what it means. And that would seem totally out-of-bounds.
But it seems like, no, it's like this should include more: so little things like that, that when I sit there, and it's very simple for them and it’s play for them, but it's astonishing to me. And then to meet a kid out by the Manda Bell about three years later that's visiting the Ramirez's next door and to bring up a story about Pharaoh saying “no” so many times, and you plant these seeds, and you don't . . .you don't think. . . . that's the Holy Spirit in the witness and the good news working through people, and that's a journey. So, it's just it's humbling to be little parts of that journey, and there's so many people in groups or just by what they do in this church that, you know, you see it, you know, like so many ladies in that fellowship hall that aren’t in that kitchen anymore. Right? And it's . . . their spirits are still in there. And there are so many seeds that were planted. And that's beautiful. It's really beautiful.
Interviewer - How about you, Julie?
Julie - I don't know. I have so many. I guess my some of my most amazing memories are working with kids in Vacation Bible School. I usually end up on the stage singing and dancing, and I guess my one of my favorite VBS’s was a superhero one. And kind of teaching them that, you know, you're a superhero for God and for Jesus. And then the kids would show up. I had a whole superhero get-up, you know, of course, and the kids would show up.
Keith - Everybody goes out.
Julie - Yeah. And the kids would show up in their superhero costumes. And just watching—it is really planting those seeds, you know, because in Vacation Bible School, we pull in so many people that are non-church children, you know, people just from the community. And you get that seed; you get the opportunity to just see their eyes light up, you know, and sing and dance about Jesus and hear those stories and hope that maybe someday down the road, if they're having a difficulty, they remember that moment or that connection. So that's, I guess, I don't have necessarily a story, but just lots of moments like that of being able to go down and dance and be silly with the kids and to do silly things. And so, what are you laughing at?
Keith - No, I was laughing. So, one time, we did God's Great Gallery.
Julie - Oh gosh—he painted himself gold! Are you going to tell about it?
Keith - Oh, I was laughing about that . . . So, it was City Cafe at the time, and it was God's Great Gallery. We didn’t have any sculptures, and I said some crazy idea. I said, I always want to do the street sculpture thing.
Julie - Like in New Orleans. People dress up and paint themselves silver. He painted himself gold.
Keith - And I said that in front of Kercida McClain. And she just ran with it, and we ended up with like . . .
Julie - Real-life theater paint,
Keith - Real theater paint. Right. And so, we did that. We stood still. And the kids are like, talking. It was crazy. The kids are like, are they real? Are they real? And we were on stage, right? And then afterwards, right, because VBS was an all-day thing, and we left at 1:30, and went and had lunch at City Café.
Julie - In gold and silver paint, body paint.
Keith – Like a real street performer
Julie - I think you didn’t have to do it that.
[Banter between Julie and Keith]
Keith - So, it was funny. So, we went to sit down, and the faces! Like you just were walking down Main Street; it was hilarious.
Julie - I'll tell another story. I mean, this church has meant so much to our children. You know, I was running through what are the stories from my children? My children have been loved. They have been cared for. There are people that, you know, it's funny because we don't have a lot of family that are our family members that live close by. The closest family members I have reside in Houston, and that's not that far but, you know, being able to call somebody . . . like one time, the boys missed their bus, and I was able to call somebody to come pick them up and take them to school. And, you know, it's that community that they raised our kids along with us. I mean, we did part of it. But, you know, this church is also part of that . . . of making of these wonderful young men that our children are and have become or are becoming. And so, they couldn't have done it without you know . . . I don't think we could have done it without this church family.
Keith - Yeah, that just goes back to handing my kid off to Mike Christiansen.
Julie - It’s all Mike Christiansen’s fault!
Interviewer - A wonderful way to start your journey at the church. Very wonderful! Last question. How do you want the First United Methodist Church to be understood by future generations?
Julie - Love. We welcome everybody, and we love everybody. That's kind of always been . . . the stories we just told, I think represent that. I mean, that's how I always think of this church.
Keith -Yeah. The church has a long tradition here. When we joined, they had a sign out, and I think it said, “120 years and Still Growing.” And I think that is in two ways, not just the numbers. Right? But in what we can provide for the community, you know. And then also as a community of faith, evolving. I think it is a huge thing. One of the things when I moved here was, about on 95 north, there was a sign--it was Aggie maroon—and it said: “God is love.” Right? And I've always felt, you know, there's times when you feel closer, and I've always felt closer in that sanctuary, and I want to share that is with other people, and this church is so huge and sharing the good news, whether it's the yellow house and the scout house, you know, or whether it's the Wesley nurse. I'm really excited about what the church can do as a connected church, as a Methodist Church. But it's also so, so important that all are welcome here. And it's just three things. It's like, you know, love people; love God; and people need to know that God loves them. And that's really what I hope for the church to do.
Julie - Well, and that's also open hearts, open minds, open doors.
Keith - So, yeah, and that's . . . which is the motto of the Methodist Church [stated together with Julie and the Interviewer]. And so, it says the people of the United Methodist Church, and this is what you can think of as static, right? That that's what this place is. But it's also our call of what to do, you know. So yeah, . . .
Interviewer - It's a great, perfect way to end this interview. And the Elgin Oral History Project appreciates your time to do this today and wishes you a great sesquicentennial year next year. We hope that this will be part of it.
Keith - Yeah. One hundred fifty years!
Julie - Thank you.